Weird. And moderately unsettling.

[flyboy_fox]

I've never really put any stock into 'mystical' things like astrology, ouija, tarot etc... I'm hopelessly science-minded to the point where I just laugh stuff off as silly, all a bunch of scam etc. I think it will take more to really shake me, but I'm kinda in a 'huh!' mindset right now after passively watching Miles do a tarot reading* for himself and, previously, for Scourge. The way each reading came out, the types of cards that ended up being drawn for each of them, their significance and relation to each other as well as the description of the person being read for was really very odd... and I saw Scourge go from "It's a crock of shit" to "... O.o" as well. I haven't lost my 'science head' completely, but it really was fucking WEIRD. Miles' interest in the occult and 'magic' and the supernatural is probably about as scientific as my disinterest is, in that he tends towards 'logical' explanations over mystic ones... but it seems to be something he's really into. I guess, by default then, I get to learn all about it too ^^; Fun!

*He picked up a Rider-Waite-Smith deck yesterday from Waterstones as I didn't have a tarot deck, obviously >_>; We almost ended up buying the Necronomicon (clarification: Lovecraft compilation by that name), too, but that would have set us back an additional £20, and you can read Lovecraft online FFS. Of course that's not 'the same' as having an actual book... meh, another time, maybe. I would kinda like to read some of them, too.

As a related aside: Do any of you guys use/believe in tarot or other 'magic'-related things? Any particular experiences? I feel like it's gotta just be coincidence, but no amount of "trying too hard to make the cards fit" seems to explain what Miles (and, reluctantly, Scourge) did with the cards, how they supposedly 'randomly' came out :\

Comments

[overlord-mordax.livejournal.com]

Ridder-Waite is a great, solid deck; so I'll applaud you there. I'm also very analytical, and tend to reject mysticism out of hand. However, I have seen people get really interesting readings with the tarot, and my runes hav never let me down.

As for the necronomicon, unless you just want it for display purposes, save your money. The widely available "Simon" Necronomicon is a boring retread of sumerian mythology, with nothing to do with Lovecraft. If you do want it for display, I'll send you mine for the price of shipping; its been collecting dust on my occult shelf for way too long.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

^^ It's a solid deck, yeah, which is why Miles scoffed at Jei's Faeries Oracle and wanted a 'real' tarot deck (Froud's Faeries is not technically a tarot anyway, although very pretty to look at and fun to browse ♥), blah blah gotta do it right.

I should clarify, I meant the collection of Lovecraft's stories that's published under that name, not the fictional book itself from his stories, nor any of the fabricated/compiled 'versions' of the 'real thing' that came since :)

Edit: I read too fast, didn't even see the offer there! That's really kind of you... I think we might be interested in having a look, so if you really wouldn't mind sending it, I'd be very very happy - how much for shipping? Thanks again!!

[overlord-mordax.livejournal.com]

Hehe, I would have been with Miles on that on. Gorgeous as I find Froud's artwork, that is not how I understand tarot. XD But still gorgeous!

Oooh! The book of stories! Well, in that case, I'm kind of sad you didn't get it! I have a bunch of his collections, but not that one. Of course, you can find them online, but that's not the same as having the book in your hand.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

Pretty to look at, but functionless I guess XD

It was a nice-looking compendium, too... but I think we could probably find a better one. For the price of the one in Waterstones, the book should have been bound in human skin with the title branded into it >_>;;

[overlord-mordax.livejournal.com]

I know there are a lot of really nice editions out there; I tend to see them while shopping. Personally, I like to go for the cheaper paperbacks, because I am honestly pretty damn hard on books, and I know it. Books I actually read get progressively more trashed. XD

Yes, the Simon necronomicon is rather like an expensive, stupid lapdog. I have it mostly as a conversation starter, and it really spiced up my shelf back before I owned any actual good occult and paranormal books. I will definitely send it if you want it, but I would need to know where you live, since I'm shit at guesstimating shippiing. PM me if you like. L)

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I guess I'll have to shop around for a good one. I could always read them online, but Miles has an aversion to spending time on my computer, and I know he prefers physical books (although he downloaded the Complete Works of Edgar Allan Poe onto my iPhone for some reason). So yeah... will keep looking. The edition in Waterstones was hardback, which probably upped the price a lot (as well as making it ludicrously heavy), so I guess maybe I should do as you do and opt for paperback instead.

I'll PM you my address in just a sec! (: Ta muchly!

[way-past-cool.livejournal.com]

ooooh Scourge's reading XD how silly. It really is interesting whether you believe in it or not. Not sure if he'll be up for it ever again, but who knows?

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

After that result? I expect he'll steer clear n.n;; Hoo-boy. But yeah, very interesting o.o

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I'll leave the actual card reading to Miles ^^; But since I can't completely separate myself from it all, I guess there's no harm in me trying to understand it a bit better at least or give it a chance...

>>Science can be proved wrong just as mysticism can too.

My personal feeling has always been that 'science' and 'magic' are essentially the same thing - that magic is just science that isn't yet understood. But maybe I'm still not open-minded enough... I'm so cynical and sceptical about it 99% of the time that I tend to not even give magic as science a chance and just write it all off as hogwash. I guess that might be kind of arrogant about me :\

The dragon deck sounds cool! I bet the illustrations are really awesome with a theme like that... (: The whole symbolism of them is really powerful, so it's cool that you seem to have a connection with it.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I've always felt the same way about love and hate, too... I have a deeply ingrained "yin and yang" philosophy where everything like that is connected and balanced and part of each other even when seeming to be polar opposites.

I also agree (as I was attempting to articulate to the anon below) that the tools used are less important than what you do with them. Crude stones or elegantly crafted runes, a battered deck of playing cards or a finely tailored tarot deck... You can get the same results, I think, as long as the items have their symbolic meaning personally.

That really is a beautiful deck!

[(Anonymous)]

I've always had a fascination with doing divination with more or less "basic" tools. My favorite is the i-Ching (an ancient Chinese form of divination using coins or plant stalks) and a type of cartomancy that uses a deck of playing cards in place of a "tarot" deck. I always felt that tarot and other highly established forms of divination were much too fake, linear, soulless and "polished" given the personal and highly interpretable nature of what you're doing with them.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I tend to think that pretty much any reading says more about the reader than it does about the cards/tools used, regardless of what the tools are (basic or embellished), but I would agree that there is a point where it can start to feel a bit too contrived or forced. I think tarot CAN be that way... but also that the very fact that it boils down to basic symbolic shapes and patterns could also be more liberating and essentially helpful in finding application. I dunno. I know nothing about it, really, it was just really odd the way it came out, even with the application of 'interpretation'.

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

Tarot and other forms of "divination" are interesting. The Rider-Waite Tarot is a strong deck for sure (I still need to get a set of those, actually). I have several different "divination" decks (not just Tarot) myself. One of my favorites is the Thoth Tarot.

The thing about "divination" is that it is what you make of it. Some of it is the power of suggestion, either by the one doing the spread or just by our own minds, much like horoscopes. The most logical explanation is the images on the Tarot help our mind focus on things that we have not previously been able to put in an order we can understand. :)

For me, I use different decks for different things. I have one deck that is good for just about everything aside from physical matters. Another that does exceptionally well in physical matters. And another that is excellent for relationships and emotional matters. I could grant you access to my metaphysical filter if you want, though the entries are sporadic?

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I would definitely like access to your filter, if you're okay with that :)

What I was kinda 'O.o' about with the readings Miles did was, for example, a 5 or 6 card reading where all the cards drawn were feminine with similar themes, and then, right after, one where all 5 or 6 cards were masculine with a shared theme. Or, in the same vein, all inverted for a particular reading. The deck was completely shuffled within an inch of its life, the cards seemingly completely randomly selected from any point in the pile... and in one, for example, using only a specified selection of the Major Arcana cards where at least 3/4 of the cards were astrologically masculine, ALL of the cards drawn were feminine. Themes were presented incredibly strongly. That's why it gave me pause, because I've always been of the mind that - like horoscopes - you can see/read anything you like in it. This was just weird, but I suppose it still could be coincidence. That's what my logical brain is telling me, anyway ^^;

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've done that kind of thing before. It seems impossible, but you can just run statistics on the probability. Mostly it's just chance. Also keep in mind that with the Tarot, there's a lot of repeat themes and symbols (completely dependent on the deck, of course). I once had a friend get really pissed off at me because he thought I was purposely giving him "bad" cards, when I was just handing cards out randomly to all the people at the table. >.< It happens.

It looks like I've already got you on my metaphysical filter. Just look for the meta tag. ^_^ Just be aware that there's controversial stuff in there because it's personal experience and opinion.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I can believe it's chance. But chance can be really odd, especially when I've personally never had such spookily consistent and appropriate results when I've tried to use them. I'm sure it's 99% psychological, and that maybe Miles just sees the cards differently than I do and so it makes a lot more sense to him (and therefore I got a much more cohesive result from his readings).

Ooo, cool ^^ Okay. I'm not one to scorn anyone's opinion or belittle their experiences even if I can't relate, so don't worry. I just find all of it very interesting :3

[sukishadow.livejournal.com]

I use Tarot cards every once in a while, when I'm bored or I'm feeling unsettled in the world. They've always been pretty accurate for me, but the cards can be interpreted in so many different ways that it's hard not to be. Then again, when you predict something and it comes true, you start sort of having to believe that something's going on that must be pretty special.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

Like I said above to Valkyriur, the way the cards came in 'themed' batches was just too uncanny for even my usual cynicism to write it off as just 'reading into it what I want to'. And the ones focussed on a particular (past) area were just spooky in how accurate they were. There wasn't a single card where I could say "Hmm, not sure how to apply that" or "I don't see how that's relevant". It was just really odd.

[sukishadow.livejournal.com]

That's really cool, I know the feeling. I've never gotten a card that causes me to feel uncertain, they've all been pretty relevant to me and my current circumstances.

I might go and use them now actually, I have a couple of questions that desperately need answering.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

Oh, good luck! I hope you find at least some of your answers ^^

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I can see why you would feel strange about using those cards ;_;

If you ever do decide to get a deck and try reading tarot again sometime, I'd be interested to hear the results, especially since you were taught/shown how to do it...

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

Well, if it helps you at all, even if only a little, it's a good thing, right? ^^

[tangyabominy.livejournal.com]

I don't consider myself a diviner of any sort (although I study mysticism), but I've had some really "whoa" experiences with the I Ching and headpeople. Somehow, this stuff always seems to come out most accurate for me when headpeople are involved; I'm not sure why that is.

I've also noticed that mystical experiences seem to clump together for me, for what it's worth. I've got a feeling that once one experience makes you more receptive to seeing things in a mystical mindset, other stuff starts to crop up. Which, of course, could also be interpreted as your mind being primed to mark things as extraordinary. But I've had some pretty stunning runs of weird events followed by years of nothing, followed by more weird events.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I've heard from a few people now who say the I Ching works well for them. It has me curious. I probably wouldn't get much out of it though... my scepticism and cynicism probably works against me and makes me a dud before I even start ^^;

[shadowdingo.livejournal.com]

My older sister used to have a set of tarot cards she tried to use on most of the family, me including, but I can't remember what mine was like.

I have a friend who believes in Wicca things, but I tend to only delve into the star signs and Astrology/Chinese Astrology. Even then it's just for a bit of fun to see what different people have to say about me/my day etc. based on my sign.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

*Nods* I tend to read my horoscope mostly just for amusement, too. I don't really put much stock into things that are hugely sensationalised/commercialised or supposedly apply en-masse to so many people based on such an arbitrary denominator. I think it can only really mean anything when it's personal, and even then it's mostly our own influence and interpretation that guides it. This whole thing made me raise a brow, but I remain sceptical ^^;

[defenestrate-me.livejournal.com]

It's all psychological. The meanings of the cards are general enough that you can fit them to anyone, if you really try.

Maybe Miles had some sort of subconscious desire for you to put some stock in them for some reason.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I think perhaps he just 'knows' them better than I do, can read them more fluently, and sees the patterns better than I do. It was still fucking weird though.

[eyes-on-stalks.livejournal.com]

I don't "believe" in tarot or other divination methods the way one would traditionally use the word. There's no faith involved. When I do a tarot reading i present myself with a series of images, each of which has some significance. As I analyze what the images mean to me I end up uncovering thoughts I wasn't conscious of. They're as accurate as I can make them.

This is why the booklets that come with the decks border on useless. They have to be general enough to present a meaning everyone can agree on.

[flyboy-fox.livejournal.com]

I think making it personal is the best thing to do, too. Stock answers are as useless as newspaper horoscopes... no trite little paraphrase can sum up and/or apply to every person who reads it. It has to be tailored, if not by the cards themselves then by the reader (and the subject). There's certainly no way to get any sort of 'accurate' result by relying merely on the cold hard 'data' in a book.

Whether you believe in any 'external' influence or just on 'internal' influences within the self, I agree completely with your statement that the words in the book, alone, are useless and meaningless.